July 04, 2004

Moore questions the patriotism of those on the right
Posted by McQ

Michael Moore asks the following questions in an LA Times editorial today:

If you are one of those who love what President Bush has done for this country and believe you must blindly follow the president to deserve to fly the flag, you should ask yourself some difficult questions about just how proud you are of the America we now inhabit:

Note that anyone who believes in anything President Bush does or has done means they think they "must blindly follow the president to deserve to fly the flag". This is the sort of shabby thinking which makes Moore's nonsense so laughable. Moore will accuse the right of black and white thinking while not even realizing he's a master of it.

Are you proud that one in six children lives in poverty in America?

As compared to what? As Bruce Bawer tells us in "Hating America": "Poverty? An American at the poverty level has about the same standard of living as the average citizen of Greece or Portugal. (Indeed, according to a recent study by the Swedish Trade Research Institute, Swedes have a slightly lower standard of living than black Americans—a devastating statistic for Scandinavians, for whom both the unparalleled success of their own welfare economies and the pitiable poverty of blacks in the racist U.S. are articles of faith."

Poverty is a serious subject. If you want to see real poverty try going to some third world nation and actually seeing what it looks like. The term poor is a relative one and it certainly would be laughable to compare our poor to the poor of Sudan or Niger or the Congo.

Are you proud that 40 million adult Americans are functional illiterates?

Michael, Michael, Michael, you should know better than to ask this question of anyone but the NEA. That's right, the teacher's union which is peopled by those who've made the classroom anything but a place for the teaching of reading, writing and arithmetic. The same teacher's union which decries and fights testing students and themselves for competence. The same teacher's union which demands incompetent teachers be kept. Tired of illiteracy? Tell the NEA. They're as much a reason for "functional illiteracy" as anything you can cite.

Are you proud that the bulk of the jobs being created these days are low- and minimum-wage jobs?

But they're not. And to say so is simply wrong. It may be what you want to believe, and it certainly would support your agenda, but the fact is you're simply blowing hot air.

For instance:

According to statistics released Friday by the U.S. Department of Labor, the seasonally adjusted number of payroll employees in computer systems design and related services rose by 6,300 from May, while workers in "management and technical consulting services" climbed by 4,700.
Or you could take a look at this list of job's which manufacturers are trying to fill. Engineering jobs, foreman's jobs, technician's jobs.

Interested in a high paying aerospace industry job? Go here. Perfer being a process engineer? Go here.

Get out on the net sometime Michael and take a look at the number and type of jobs being offered.

Low paying? Not at all. Its a myth and you know it. Rises in consumer spending of the likes we're seeing aren't produced by low paying jobs.

One problem though ... the NEA is responsible for turning out functional illiterates, and thanks to them, those "graduates" of the NEA's hard fought education 'system' aren't qualified for a lot of those jobs.

Are you proud of asking your fellow Americans to live on $5.15 an hour?

No one is asking anyone to live on $5.15 an hour. That's why we live in America. Here you have the opportunity to earn more than that. But that's the key, Michael ... earning it. That's the difference between you and the right. They prefer a person earn their way in the world and are all for giving them that opportunity.

You, on the other hand, prefer to take money from some and give it to others based on your arbitrary determination of what's "fair". Well guess what? Your way gives us the stagnation and high unemployment of those brilliant Europeans you're always playing up too. Yup, we dumb, illiterate and provincial Americans enjoy a lifestyle many times better than any of those countries of the "European Elite" you're always sucking up too.

Are you proud that, according to a National Geographic Society survey, 85% of young adult Americans cannot find Iraq on the map (and 11% cannot find the United States!)?

Again, ask the NEA ... it is the members of the leftish teacher's union who have the responsibliity for the classroom and what is taught. Education department heads come and go, and they can only try to get done in the classroom what needs to be done, but until the NEA gets out of the way and quits protecting incompetent teachers and quits encouraging social promotion, you can bet it won't get any better ... but as with your other questions, the answer is on the left with the union that won't budge.

Are you proud that the rest of the world, which poured out its heart to us after Sept. 11, now looks at us with disdain and disgust?

Are you so naive and ignorant as to believe that we were 'loved' by the rest of the world before 9/11? If so, you're not at all as informed and "worldly" as you'd have everyone believe. America has never been 'loved' and it most likely never will. You folks on the left need to understand that and get over it.

Here, take a look at what Bruce Bawer points out in his article "Hating America". Unlike you he spent years in Europe. And his observation is spot on:

Then came September 11. Briefly, Western European hostility toward the U.S. yielded to sincere, if shallow, solidarity (“We are all Americans”). But the enmity soon re-established itself (a fact confirmed for me daily on the websites of the many Western European newspapers I had begun reading online). With the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq, it intensified. Yet the endlessly reiterated claim that George W. Bush “squandered” Western Europe’s post-9/11 sympathy is nonsense. The sympathy was a blip; the anti-Americanism is chronic.

If you were actually as well traveled as you like to pretend or as knowledgable of Europe and the rest of the world as you like to infer, you'd know that. Its never been a secret. But it is a fact that is totally inconvenient to your assertion, isn't it?

Are you proud that nearly 3 billion people on this planet do not have access to clean drinking water when we have the resources and technology to remedy this immediately?

Where's the UN on this Michael? Isn't that one of the reasons for its existance? Seems the third world debating club would be perfect for this sort of project. Instead they're wrapped up in an extortion scam with a middle eastern dictator who's feeding his people through shredders.

Meanwhile, mean old George Bush and the boys have liberated over 40 million people who now have a chance at a life of liberty.

And yet you still bitch.

Are you proud of the fact that our president sent our soldiers off to a war that had nothing to do with the self-defense of this country?

Terror isn't just the weapon of the stateless, Michael. In case you missed it we were attacked by terrorists on 9/11. I know that's really a minor point to you, but it shook the rest of us up pretty badly. It was then and there that the current administration decided they just weren't going to wait for the "next time" before they did anything and declared war on "terrorists, terrorist organizations, and states that sponsored terror", because you see, they want no more 9/11s.

I say bully for them.

And, like Afghanistan, Iraq was a state that sponsored terrorism. So to answer your question, yes, I'm quite proud of the fact that we used our military to destroy two supporters of terror and liberate over 40 million people from their clutches. Its easy to pretend this prevented nothing, but then we've not had another attack on the US since 9/11 have we?

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Comments

Responding point by point to Michael Moore is good in some ways, as we need to be continually reminded of the truth. But it misses an important point: Moore has no intention of discussing the truth. He is a pure partisan and will say absolutely anything that he thinks will further the far Left's agenda. True or false, fair or unfair, logical or illogical: it makes no difference to him.

I hate to make judgements of the motivation of another, but Michael Moore has told us what his purposes are by his words as well as his deeds. I usually speak out against the kind of words I just wrote, but unfortunately they are clearly true about Moore.

Posted by: Rory Daulton at July 4, 2004 04:52 PM

From the list mentioned here I have this to say about the following:

Literacy - we have free libraries, free schools, free adult education classes. The only person who is at fault is the person who cant read.

Finding Iraq on the map. Same as above. If they can follow a road map they can find Iraq on a map. It isnt too hard to look for a 4 letter word.

Living on minimum wage jobs - Again I point to the individual. Noone is stopping them from trying to find a higher paying job. Noone is oppressing them and holding a gun to their head and saying you must work at McDonalds. For anyone healthy enough they can join the military and make more than $5.15 an hour and get free food and housing as well.

Posted by: retired military at July 4, 2004 05:03 PM

I'm actually ashamed to live in a country where a falsehood peddling clown like Moore can actually be considered legitimate..and I'm ashamed of the idiots that abandon critical thinking and follow him..

Posted by: shark at July 4, 2004 05:09 PM

By the way Mikey, keep opening your mouth, because with every word, you make easier for the FEC to use McCain-Feingold (spit on the ground at the mention of that terrible law) to treat ads for your DVD as political speech and subject to regulations...

Posted by: shark at July 4, 2004 05:11 PM

The LA Times has a piece from Jonah regarding the 4th and the flag. His is the example of a sane perspective.

Posted by: Bird Dog at July 5, 2004 11:36 AM

Back in 98, Walter Williams addressed these points. I kept it on a floppy knowing this would come up. He speaks of what constitutes 'poverty' in America"

"In 1995, 41 percent of all "poor" households owned their own homes. The average size of that home was three bedrooms, one-and-a-half bathrooms, a garage and a porch or patio. Three-quarters of a million "poor" owned homes worth over $150,000; some of those homes sported Jacuzzis and pools. The average "poor" American has one-third more living space than the average Japanese, 25 percent more than the average Frenchman, 40 percent more than the average Greek and four times more than the average Russian. "

"Seventy percent of "poor" households own a car; 27 percent own two or more cars. Ninety-seven percent have a color television; nearly half own two or more televisions. Two-thirds of "poor" households have air conditioning. By contrast, 30 years ago, only 36 percent of the entire U.S. population enjoyed air conditioning. America's "poor" people aren't hungry, either. In fact, "poor" people are more likely to be overweight than higher-income people. The average consumption of proteins, vitamins and minerals is virtually the same for poor as middle-income children, and in most cases above government recommended minimums. "

"The Census Bureau does a grossly poor job measuring poverty for several reasons. First, it looks at only current income and ignores assets. Thus, a family of four living in a $300,000 house with $1 million dollars in the bank, as far as the Census Bureau is concerned, is poor if for some reason its income was less than $16,404 in 1997.

The Census Bureau also misses income. In 1995, the Census Bureau claimed that the lowest income fifth of households had an average income of $8,350. In the same year, the Department of Labor's consumer expenditure survey showed that the same lowest fifth of households spent $14,607. The Labor Department's survey shows $1.75 worth of spending for each $1 the Census Bureau claims that household possesses.

Real material poverty, to any significant degree, simply does not exist in the United States. The bulk of our "poor" live under conditions that would have been judged comfortable or even well-off a few generations ago. The nonsense maxim that "the rich get richer and the poor get poorer" just doesn't stand up to the evidence. The fact is everyone has become richer. "

Posted by: Bithead at July 5, 2004 12:26 PM

Seriously, the rising tide is lifting all boats. Are some getting richer at a faster clip than others? Sure, but so what?

Go down to a Best Buy. It's not aristocrats who are walking out of there with all those electronic goods and games...

Posted by: shark at July 5, 2004 01:10 PM

[i]Are you proud that the bulk of the jobs being created these days are low- and minimum-wage jobs?[/i]

This was the same criticism that was laid on Bill Clinton at the start of his Presidency. I have come to the conclusion that all economic recoveries start like this. The economy changes and people need to retrain and work their way back up the salary ladder. Its unfortunate but true.

Posted by: MrAcheson at July 6, 2004 10:14 AM

Apropos of perhaps nothing, but I'm reminded by the "85% couldn't find Iraq on a map" quip of about the only funny Doonesbury cartoon of the last decade or so. An Iraqi factory manager asked Roland Hedley (I think it was) if the above assertion were true during a UN inspection, and his answer was, "Yes, but the other 15% are all Marines."

Posted by: Ken Hall at July 6, 2004 12:48 PM

"America has never been 'loved' and it most likely never will."
As a non-American I have to take issue with that statement.
America is loved-revered even- by many, many people the world over as the embodiment of freedom and hope. Don't let anti-Americanism give you a distorted view of the way your country is viewed by millions of people.
The sight of an American carrier or an F16 in our waters and airspace (Australia) is both welcome and heartening. And plenty of us in Aussie are glad to buy a beer for any visiting serviceman.

Posted by: Keith at July 6, 2004 05:40 PM

Keith: Thanks for that. I happen to feel the same way about Aussies. What other ally has backed us and fought side by side in every 20th century war we've been in? Australia. Finer friends we could never have.

Hopefully you understood I was mostly talking about "Old Europe" and other areas such as the Middle East, etc. Americans seem to have this unique segment of their population ... a self-loathing section, which takes every opportunity to talk down America. Moore is a part of that. And his enablers are to be found in "Old Europe" minus the good old Brits.

Those are the people this segment seems to think we should be like and by whom we should be liked. Its more important that we be "accepted" by France than we be what we are.

Michale Moore deserved the Palm d'Or since it signifies perfectly the relationship between America-bashers of both American and European extraction.

Posted by: McQ at July 6, 2004 06:25 PM

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