QandOQuestions and Observations |
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Your points about cutting non-essential spending are well taken for the most part, and should be done as a matter of course and of principal. But as to the rest of your fears... what of the increases in revenue we've been seeing, Dale? This is exactly the same argument the anti-supply types could never understand and still don't to this day. Posted by: Bithead at July 26, 2004 01:02 PM |
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I think I addressed that by pointing out the 2001 tax cuts provided long-term incentives, didn't I? I mean, the whole point of this post was to contrast the revenue-creating tax cuts of 1981 and 2001, with the revenue cutting rebates and credits of the past couple of years, wasn't it? And Bruce Bartlett has been one of the country's chief supply-siders for 25 years. If we're both on the same track, doesn't it strike you that what we're saying is a different from the criticisms the left has been making? Posted by: Dale Franks at July 26, 2004 01:04 PM |
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The argument in 81 was really rather simple; cut the taxes to get the economy moving. (And I doubt many readers of this blog or mine will argue against the statement that after 8 years of Clintonomics, it certainly needed the help.) Our economy is moving again, now, and as a result, the tax take has gone up rather dramatically. Perhaps I can illustrate this a bit better this way; Where would our government debt sitrep be, had the steps NOT been taken? Posted by: Bithead at July 26, 2004 01:15 PM |
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That's an interesting question, but not really relevant to the point I was making in the post. Posted by: Dale Franks at July 26, 2004 02:01 PM |
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Well, what about further rate cuts? Not credits or exemptions. Would trimming the top rate to 31% (where it was when Clinton took office) increase or decrease revenue? Or, for that matter, what about corporate rates? Have they been raised or cut since the 80s? Posted by: Gary and the Samoyeds at July 26, 2004 03:03 PM |
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What you say makes a lot of sense, but the current tax structure still makes it a political playhouse with the deck stacked against the taxpayer. What do you think about the efficacy of either a flat tax or the so-called fair tax, a tax on retail sales, only? Both would seem to simplify the Orwellian tax structure, and would seem to offer a boone to businesses of all stripes. John F. Posted by: John F. at July 26, 2004 04:23 PM |
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The problem is not tax cuts. It's the spending. it does not matter what our tax levels are, if we do not stop the runaway spending the countries fiscal future is bleak. Maybe I'm too pesimistic, but I see it as a choice between higher taxes now and higher taxes later or lower taxes now and higher taxes later. I don't think repealing tax cuts are going to head off the fiscal trian wreck ahead. Posted by: Frank Castle at July 26, 2004 05:21 PM |
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I have what is perhaps a minor semantic quibble... You say that "...an equilibrium point at which tax revenues are maximized, but economic growth is not hindered by excessive taxation. So, the goal of supply-side tax cuts was to fix tax rates as close as possible to this equilibrium point." However, it is not the goal of supply-siders to fix the tax rate at the equilibrium point as most supply-siders I know don't wish to maximize government revenue. They wish to minimize the economic drag of government. Therefore, they want the lowest possible tax rates. The Laffer curve, then, shows that a 20% increase in the tax rate (as in, from 20% to 24%) won't result in a 20% increase in revenue. (Or, conversely, a 20% cut, e.g., from 20% to 16%, won't result in a 20% drop in revenue.) It does not, however, show the rate that maximizes economic growth. As to the point of your post, let me wholeheartedly agree with you. Posted by: Nate at July 26, 2004 05:35 PM |
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Nate, I think that a good number of supply-siders felt a bit more pragmatic than you describe. I think there was a hope that taxation could be minimized, but a realistic expectation that lowering taxes too much was politically undoable, and that hitting the equilibrium point would raise revenues, thus disarming the critics of supply-side theory, while reaching the more important goal of neutralizing government impact on economic growth. Once you drop below the equilibrium point, taxation's effect on growth is minimal, since the equilibrium point, by defintion, is the point at which fiscal policy's effect on growth is neutralized. The Laffer curve doesn't show that "a 20% increase in the tax rate (as in, from 20% to 24%) won't result in a 20% increase in revenue" in the sense that precise percentages can deduced from it. The Laffer Curve lacks any specificity about tax rates and revenue, except to show that at 0% and 100%, government receives no revenue from taxation. The actual shape of the curve, and, hence, the relationship between taxes and revenues at any place besides the end points, is really unknown. The shape of the curve, therefore, is purely notional in Laffer's presentation. The curve may be substantially flatter, or it may be skewed towards one end or the other. Indeed, there may not even be a set equilibrium point, but rather a plateau at which a contiguous range of tax rates all provide the same revenue. Indeed, I suspect the latter is true, so that marginal rate changes between, say, 30% and 35% may have no effect at all. Everything is really dependent on whether we are on the left of right side of the equilibrium point, or equilibrium plateau as the case may be, as well as oither, non-economic conditions that may obtain. At different times, the same increase in taxation may result in more revenue, less revenue, or be revenue neutral. Or not. We really don't know, and I don't believe that we have either the historical data or the econometric modeling ability to prove it one way or another. The curve is a nice teaching tool, but a pretty unspecific one. It just isn't suited for making accurate predictions about the revenue effects of small changes in moderate taxation rates. Posted by: Dale Franks at July 26, 2004 07:05 PM |
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Thanks for letting me down gently. :) My view on the matter is a little longer term than a term of office, so bummer... But if you increase the growth of the economy by one percentage point from 4 to 5% by lowering the marginal tax rate some amount, in 56 years, (52 years if you increase growth from 3 to 4%) you have approximately double the economy in the higher growth rate model. In the longer term (okay, in the really long term, that's trivial as ((x + epsilon) / x) ^ N grows without bound as N increases) a little extra growth rate will result in a heck of a bigger economy, such that the lower tax rate of a much bigger economy will yield much larger government revenues. In the example of Europe growing at 1% per year, and the US's average of closer to 3%, our economy will double in size in about 23 years, while Europe's will take almost 70 years to double. (in that 70 years, our economy would be eight times the size it is now!) So, I'd like to think I was a little bit pragmatic. Or just thrifty. As Poor Richard said, "Plough deep while sluggards sleep, and you will have grain to sell, and to keep." I apologize to economists everywhere for my incoherent babbling. Posted by: Nate at July 26, 2004 09:25 PM |
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2 Quick question: Why would the effect on the economy be neutralized at the equilibrium point? Revenues may go down more rapidly than economic activity would increase, but I see no reason to think that growth wouldn't increase. Also, is there something which would prevent the possibility of local optima? Given the number of variables involved, there may be a series of peak points. Posted by: Phlinn at August 2, 2004 12:42 PM |
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