QandOQuestions and Observations |
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I agree with getting US ground forces out of Germany. They serve no purpose since the Germans control both sides of the Fulda Gap and have for over a decade. That war is over and has been for a long time. We may want to keep some forces in the region for quick deployment, but otherwise bring them home and let Europe foot its own defense bills. However North Korea is different. I would much rather see Bush adopt a hardball strategy against them like Reagan did with the Soviets. Yes the NKoms can hit us with missiles but so could the Soviets. All the logic Reagan used against the Sovs applies here. Oh and the Europeans didn't exactly love us in the '80s either, especially when we were deploying nuclear weapons in their back yards to ratchet up the arms race until the Sovs couldn't take it anymore. Posted by: Jeff the Baptist at August 18, 2004 04:08 PM |
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I seriously don't understand what the problem is with some people. They're sitting there desperately clinging onto NATO, UNITED NATIONS etc like a baby monkey clings to it's mother. Why are they so scared of change? Since NATO was formed, since the UN was formed, the geo-political circumstances of the world have changed. Things change, why do they fight it? Is it in our best interests to blindly pump time and resources to something that may not fit our needs anymore? Since when did keeping the status quo become the paramount objective here!?! Times change. We need to be free of encumberances so to have flexibility to deal with issues as we see fit. Which doesn't mean on a grand multilateral scale anymore. The way of the future is a more ad hoc bi or tri lateral method. We'll get those we can to help, we'll work around those who won't. Today working with England may suit our needs. Tomorrow it may not. But we need some people with enough sack in this damn country to see that and work for our best interests instead of taking the lazy way out. This is not a fricking popularity contest. Posted by: shark at August 18, 2004 04:35 PM |
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One thing I think you don't treat enough is that having troops in a country can go both ways. It's popular in Germany because it creates a lot of jobs, but in many other places, it's much less so. Having troops in a country isn't the key to an alliance; it's the key to a protectorate. Maybe that's the essential nature of our relationship with Germany, but if that were the case, they would owe us loyalty. NATO is a nice insurance policy. Posted by: John A. Kalb at August 18, 2004 07:09 PM |
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Great critique! There is also the possibility/probability of another part to this plan, unstated at this time. It's well past time to create a new paradigm. We have already started in the Middle East. We are making new allies and moving our military from Saudi Arabia to more friendly and less restrictive digs. We will most likely do the same in Europe. Poland comes to mind as well as some of the other former Soviet satellites that would welcome some cold hard American cash. American troops and our Government represent a considerable source of income in the private market as well as payments to Governments for the use of bases. (Nobody seems to ever mention it). It is time to reward our friends and show the crack of our collective ass to our fair-weather friends. The Koreans seem content to play with fire at this time. I see no reason to risk the Immolation of 17,000 American troops on the alter of Korean reunification. We can attack N. Korea from anywhere in the US with the push of a button. The S. Koreans are tough troops and can take care of any conventional attack in their own country. Posted by: Warren at August 18, 2004 08:41 PM |
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I agree that from a strategic point of view, the proposed redeployment of US troops from South Korea does not alter the strategic picture in the region. However, it was a medium sized diplomatic blunder to announce it in the way that it was announced. While I don't buy the standard analysis that the North Koreans will see this as a unilateral concession (they won't because they're smarter than that,) it does tend to put South Korea, which does have troops in Iraq, in the same boat as Germany, which bitterly opposed the war in Iraq. This undercuts allies inside of South Korea who argue that supporting the US in Iraq is a good thing for South Korea. As for Germany, perhaps they could invite troops from Saudi Arabia onto their soil to help them with their security needs. This would help guarantee the flow of US dollars into their country (SUVs to Saudi Arabia to troops in Germany.) And, given the recent demographic shifts in Europe, the Saudis could even recruit troops from there. Posted by: pdq332 at August 18, 2004 10:52 PM |
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Geting troops out of South Korea is a fine idea. The South Koreans are strong enough militarily to take over North Korea right now if they were so inclined. However, international politics isn't generally so cut and dry. This removal will not jeopardize or unsettle the situation in Korea. We will still be in a great position to pressure and eventually force North Korea to de-nuclearize and subsequently "fall" to democracy. Reagan did it to the USSR. Is Bush the man to do it to communist N. Korea? Let's hope so. Posted by: el Seco at August 19, 2004 02:06 AM |
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John A Kalb: "One thing I think you don't treat enough is that having troops in a country can go both ways. It's popular in Germany because it creates a lot of jobs". I would hope after a statement such as this you are not one that cries about X number of Bush job losses. You are correct in one sense it is about Germen jobs and they are weeping crocodile tears. Large ones that threaten to over flow the Rhine River. But as they say "tough tities in the big city." The same crap was said when the US withdrew from the Philippines. Today both Subic and Clarke employ approx 40% more people than the Navy or Air Force ever did. Trust me I currently live about 50 miles from the front gate of Subic. The transformation is truly remarkable. The EU countries have lived under the US military umbrella, for too many decades and it has allowed them to create nannie/cradle-to-grave states where 35 hour work weeks and 6 week summer vactions are the norm. It is time for them to pay their own way. The US concern is NOT German jobs. Besides, NATO has it own insurance policy. it is called the Nato Response Force that is just now coming into being. A Bush/Rumsfeld plan I might add. Dale is exactly correct this has been in the works since 2001. It has been well publicized and if it comes as a surprise to anyone in the EU or at home they just have not been paying attention. Posted by: Marc at August 19, 2004 03:49 AM |
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No one mentions that one of the reasons that we can withdraw troops without affecting effectiveness is improved technology. The technology gap between the US and other countries continues to widen with the exception of China. If we ever do end up going to war with China, it won't be fought with ground troops anyway unless they proxy through NK. China is likely to be a non-issue if they continue with the westernizing of their lifestyle. Posted by: Guy from Ohio at August 19, 2004 09:05 AM |
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Nice fisking. Only nitpick is that FDR and the US as a whole did not perceive Stalin as odious during WWII, despite warnings from those who knew better. Instead, there was the notion of a brave and strong "Uncle Joe" fighting for his people. Only after the war did the US, and especially Truman, understand the nature of the Soviet bear. Nonetheless, your points are valid. The fact that Kerry's election would be welcomed in Europe and Asia is a huge negative. Euros hated the specter of a Reagan election in 1980, but they seemed pretty pleased when the USSR collapsed upon itself in 1989 thanks in LARGE part to Reagan's policies. Becoming more like Europe is not an option for the United States politically or psychologically. This country, throughout its history, has been characterized by its will to achieve and desire to excel; modern Europe is a desiccated polity, bereft of the notion of driven individuals pioneering new concepts into great feats. It is true that 'tis better to jaw-jaw than war-war, but when your only option is to talk, you have no leverage against those who won't listen. The European paradigm is therefore ineffective and ultimately immoral because it cannot withstand the acts of international wrongdoers. Posted by: The Monk at August 19, 2004 09:46 AM |
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