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August 22, 2004 Swifties and MoveOn OK, Tell me the difference Kerry and Edwards, et.al. have been beside themselves with the Swift Boat Veteran’s for Truth ad campaign. They tried legal intimidation to stop the ads from being played. That didn’t work. They’ve tried to link the group to the Bush campaign. So far that’s not worked. They’ve put their best attack beasts like Carvelle on the talk shows. That’s been a flop. They’re even filing a complaint with the FEC. With the book “Unfit for Command”, the tact has been to demand its recall as, per the left, it is reminiscent of the “Hitler Diaries”. The latest tactic, however, is to try to put the whole thing in Bush’s lap. “This is a moment of truth for George W. Bush,” Edwards said at a Democratic rally. “We’re going to see what kind of man he is and what kind of leader he is. ... We want to hear three words: Stop these ads.” Well there’s one problem. They’re not his ads. They’re the ads of a 527 organization which has as much right to run them as say, MoveOn group. Would Edwards or Kerry demand they too “stop these ads”? Of course not. Any formal ties between the Bush campaign and the veterans group would be against the law. Swift Boat Veterans for the Truth is organized as a non-party, independent political group under section 527 of the Internal Revenue Code, and coordination between a 527 group and a presidential campaign is illegal. While any connection between the Bush campaign and the Swift Boat for Truth is tenuous at best, that’s not the case between John Kerry and the MoveOn group. Just for the record on one site MoveOn lists itself this way: The MoveOn family of organizations consists of three entities. MoveOn.org, a 501(c)(4) organization, primarily focuses on education and advocacy on important national issues. MoveOn PAC, a federal PAC, primarily helps members elect candidates who reflect our values. And MoveOn.org Voter Fund, a 527 organization, primarily educates voters on the positions, records, views, and qualifications of candidates for public office. On another, MoveOn lists itself this way: The MoveOn family of organizations consists of three entities. MoveOn.org, a 501(c)(4) organization, primarily focuses on education and advocacy on important national issues. MoveOn.org PAC, a federal PAC, primarily helps members elect candidates who reflect our values. And MoveOn.org Voter Fund, a 527 organization, primarily runs ads exposing President Bush's failed policies in key "battleground" states. Emphasis mine. Note the change or difference. “[A] 527 organization, primarily runs ads exposing President Bush’s failed policies in key “battleground” states”. Interesting. So both 527 organizations are running ads in the battleground states. But while there is no apparent relationship with the SBVT and Bush, there’s definitely a relationship between John Kerry and “The MoveOn family of organizations” On June 17, 2003, John Kerry addressed a letter entitled “A letter to MoveOn members from John Kerry” in which he solicited their support and asked them to sign a petition on his web site: Three words sum up why we need to take action today: The Supreme Court. I need you to join me in keeping the Supreme Court out of the hands of right wing ideologues. I am prepared to filibuster, if necessary, any Supreme Court nominee who would turn back the clock on a woman’s right to choose, on civil rights and individual liberties, and on the laws protecting workers and the environment. The result of Kerry’s petition drive in which he contacted MoveOn is proudly displayed by the DNC here and here. Last but not least, there’s the MoveOn PAC video which takes on Bush’s military record. It repeats the refuted “Bush AWOL” nonsense, but not a single person in the Kerry campaign has called for MoveOn PAC to “stop these ads”. In fact they seem to think they have every right to run them as they note here, unlike the Swift Boat Vets, apparently. The more I see the desperation to which the Kerry campaign tries to stop the SBVT ads, the more I’m inclined to believe their truth. You just don’t try as hard as the Kerry folks are trying to get something stopped if it doesn’t have any validity. On the other hand, I’d be interested to see what the FEC would have to say about the Kerry campaign's obvious connections with the MoveOn group, part of which is a 527 organization. If, as MSNBC claims "coordination between a 527 group and a presidential campaign is illegal", then I'd suggest that its the Kerry campaign which has the problem, not the Bush campaign. Hat tip to my bro for the links.
The Democratic Party is partnering with MoveOn.org, People for the American Way, Campaign for America's Future, and dozens of other groups representing millions of Americans to organize a massive public mobilization. On Wednesday, May 14, join us by calling and emailing your representatives in Congress to let them know that the majority of Americans oppose more irresponsible tax cuts that go overwhelmingly to the wealthiest sliver of Americans. What is it? An announcement at the DNC website. |
FTC?
Maybe you meant FEC?
Posted by: Terry at August 22, 2004 02:36 PM
Ack! You're right. Corrected. Thanks.
Posted by: McQ at August 22, 2004 02:39 PM
The republican did file a complaint with the FEC about the Media Fund: Link
Posted by: pdq332 at August 22, 2004 03:12 PM
That link didn't seem to work: it was
http://www.azstarnet.com/dailystar/relatedarticles/16243.php
Posted by: pdq332 at August 22, 2004 03:14 PM
McQ said:
"Not once, to my knowledge has the Bush campaign tried to get a book pulled, tried intimidation to stop a tv ad, filed a complaint with the FEC or attempted to in any way tried to hamper the freedom of political speech of the MoveOn family of organizations."
You're wrong McQ. Flat wrong.
On March 31, 2004, the Bush campaign filed an FEC complaint. What follows is from the RNC:
Washington, DC—The Republican National Committee and the Bush Cheney campaign today announced they are filing a complaint against third party 527 groups and the John Kerry for President campaign.
“Senator Kerry, who supported the Bipartisan Campaign Finance Reform Act (BCRA) is now the beneficiary of the single largest conspiracy to violate campaign finance laws in history,” said RNC Chief Counsel Jill Holtzman Vogel.
The complaint which will be filed with the Federal Election Commission today outlines violations of campaign finance law including using soft money to advocate for or against a candidate for federal office and illegally coordinating campaign activity between 527 groups and the Kerry campaign.
Summary of FEC Complaint http://www.gop.com/media/FECSummary.pdf
****
You, like the SwiftVets, seem to have a problem with facts. My advice: research more and write less.
Posted by: mkultra at August 22, 2004 04:07 PM
McQ said:
"It repeats the refuted “Bush AWOL” nonsense, but not a single person in the Kerry campaign has called for MoveOn PAC to “stop these ads”."
Wrong again, McQ. From the LA Times:
Published on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 by the Los Angeles Times
Kerry Condemns Anti-Bush Ad
'This should be a campaign of issues, not insults,' the Democrat says after MoveOn attacks president's Air National Guard record.
by Richard Simon
WASHINGTON — Sen. John F. Kerry took a cue from Sen. John McCain on Tuesday and denounced a television ad by one of his allies attacking President Bush's service in the Texas Air National Guard.
In the latest twist in an ongoing debate about military credentials, Kerry condemned the new ad by the MoveOn political action committee, even though it was produced in response to an ad questioning Kerry's Vietnam War record.
****
Please stop. You are making my head hurt.
Posted by: mkultra at August 22, 2004 04:11 PM
AND HOW IS THIS DIFFERENT??
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/03/07/moveon.ads/
4th para.
But MoveOn.org's lawyer, Joseph Sandler, said in a statement that the ads were funded legally, calling the RNC's letter "a complete misrepresentation of the law."
http://humaneventsonline.com.edgesuite.net/unfit_pdf.html
see first sentence and righthand signature block
"We are counsel to the Democratic National Committee and John Kerry
respectively."
Sandler is General Counsel, DNC
Posted by: dustoff at August 22, 2004 04:28 PM
McQ said:
"But while there is no apparent relationship with the SBVT and Bush, there’s definitely a relationship between John Kerry and “The MoveOn family of organizations”"
Oh really? Well, what about Kenneth Cordier? Until August 19 (3 days ago) this Swift Boat Liar was a member of the Bush-Cheney '04 Nation Veterans Steering Committee. http://www.gwu.edu/~action/2004/bush/bushorgvet.html
So let me get this straight: One of the Swift Boat Liars is - or was until 3 days ago, a high-ranking member of the Bush-Cheney election campaign, but, according to you, there is "no apparent relationship" between the Swift Boat liars and Bush?
Now you're just making stuff up. But of course it's the Democrats and Kerry who have a problem with the truth.
The mind reels.
Posted by: mkultra at August 22, 2004 04:30 PM
Looks like both sides are up to dirty tricks...but I predict a meltdown from JFK over this swiftvet stuff. Bush already took his beating with F911, among other smears perped by the dems.
Posted by: Mr. K at August 22, 2004 04:35 PM
mkultra: Cordier was not a "representative of the Bush campaign", he was a campaign worker who happened to be connected with the SBVT. Unless you can show he connection with the SBVT was directed by Bush and company, its a coincidence and nothing more.
As for the other two point, it appears you're correct. Thanks for the cites and I'll modify my comments accordingly.
Posted by: McQ at August 22, 2004 04:39 PM
The PAC and the 527 are linked from the same page. The 527, of course, cannot ask you to vote "for" or "against" anything, and may not be coordinated with an actual political campaign. The PAC is a campaign. More analysis here.
Now, considering that both are operated by the very same people, how is it possible for them not to be coordinated?
Posted by: rogersnowden at August 22, 2004 04:46 PM
This is why this is all so important... this is the true face of the (D)'s... suppression of free speech they don't like and (D)irty money spent on (D)irty tactics...
Posted by: DANEgerus at August 22, 2004 05:31 PM
mkultra:
This may come as a bit of a shock. Make sure you're sitting down:
But on Friday, a spokeswoman for the Kerry campaign backed away from the suggestion. She said what MoveOn.org is doing is perfectly fine, while what the Swift Boat Veterans are doing is “dishonest” and “dishonorable.”Debra Deshong of the Kerry campaign told Fox News there’s a difference between MoveOn.org and Swift Boat Veterans for Truth: “MoveOn.org is an independent organization that existed well before the Kerry campaign,” she said, whereas Swift Boat Veterans for Truth “is not an independent group.”
Deshong invoked Friday’s New York Times article as proof: “And in today’s New York Times, it details exactly all the ties this group (Swift Boat Veterans for Truth) has to the Bush White House.”
Deshong condemned Bush for not telling Swift Boat Veterans for Truth to stop running their ad. (Swift Boats say it wouldn’t matter what Bush said—see related story)
“Again, we (the Kerry campaign) have nothing to do with these independent ads, like MoveOn.org. That is an independent organization that existed well before the Kerry campaign. They have every right to be running what they are under the campaign finance laws.” According to Deshong, “This is about the Swift Boat Vets that are running dishonorable ads that Bush refuses to condemn”
Another Kerry flip flop ... he was against MoveOn's ads before he was before them it seems.
Posted by: McQ at August 22, 2004 06:32 PM
rogersnowdon: Its not and that's the point. That's why I listed MoveOn's own description of itself on two different sites.
Posted by: McQ at August 22, 2004 06:34 PM
Mkultra, you're melting down over these ads as much as Kerry is.
Message to both of you: deal with it bitches.
Posted by: shark at August 22, 2004 06:35 PM
This was an interesting couple of posts, no?
" What about Kenneth Cordier? Until August 19 (3 days ago) this Swift Boat Liar was a member of the Bush-Cheney '04 Nation Veterans Steering Committee
later, Mr. Cordier becomes
"a high ranking member of the Bush-Cheney election campaign"
So, a member of a veterans steering committee turns into a "high ranking member".
And done by the same poster.
SMG
Posted by: SteveMG at August 22, 2004 08:04 PM
Well, the enemy fire on March 13, 1969 has morphed from "sniper fire from both banks" in Iowa in January 2004 (per news release by Ms Stephanie Cutter of the Kerry Kulture Kampaign) to "a withering hail of fire from both banks" in August 2004 (courtesy of all those desperate Kerry defenders).
And, mkultura, your head would probably quit hurting so much if you would just: 1) run an oxygen tube up there; or 2) punch some airholes in the plexiglass in your bellybutton you use to see where you're going; or 3) perform a simple extraction maneuver.
Posted by: JorgXMcKie at August 22, 2004 08:24 PM
I recall seeing somewhere too that theres an advisor for the Kerry campaign that previously ran MoveOn, and retains "communications" with the 527. I think his name is Exerley, Exery (?). I don't recall his last name completely off the top of my head, but I also remember the Kerry camp being quite proud of this. Note that this guy isn't just a volunteer either, he's pretty well involved. Hurts when the shoe's on the other foot huh?
Posted by: Chris at August 22, 2004 09:51 PM
Zach Exley, Kerry's online communications chief was hired from MoveOn.org, where he was director of special projects.
Posted by: Lance Jonn Romanoff at August 22, 2004 09:58 PM
Okay, fair enough. Both sides being equal...please then, explain why this flier is being distributed by my state's GOP:
Posted by: Becky at August 22, 2004 11:14 PM
Becky: don't know - you need to ask them. But for there to be an association I've always been of the impression that both parties have to agree to it. Here's what the Swift Boat Vets say:
Saturday, August 21, 2004Swift Boat Veterans for Truth Disavow Florida Political Flyer
August 21, 2004 - Swift Boat Veterans for Truth (SBVT), a non-partisan group representing more than 250 Swift Boat veterans who served with Senator John Kerry in Vietnam, repudiates and disassociates itself from the flyer that was allegedly distributed in Florida regarding an upcoming political event. SBVT has not authorized any such rallies, communications, events or other similar political activities with any political party, candidate or other political organization. Any suggestion that SBVT coordinated the production and distribution of this flyer promoting an event, or the event itself, with a political party is false.
SBVT is an independent organization dedicated to correcting the false statements made by Senator Kerry about his service record in Vietnam and the service records of the men who served with him. SBVT acts independently from and is not affiliated with any political party – Republican, Democratic, or independent – or any candidate for public office. Only the SBVT Executive Committee, comprised of men who served on Swift Boats in Vietnam, has the authority to authorize communications on behalf of the organization or official events.
Sounds to me like the FL GOP got a little ahead of themselves, wouldn't you say?
Posted by: McQ at August 22, 2004 11:24 PM
Okay, fair enough. Both sides being equal...please then, explain why this flier is being distributed by my state's GOP:
I dunno, Becky. Myabe because the FL GOP agrees with what the SBVT have to say? That doesn't mean the Swifties are being controlled by the Republicans.
Why is the DNC buying up copies of Fahrenheit 9/11 for distribution? Using your logic, the DNC must have been behind Michael Moore's production.
Posted by: Steverino at August 23, 2004 10:47 AM
Dunno, Becky. Why was the Kerry campaign coordinating with MoveOn?
"The "Mother" of All House Parties
The East Bay for Kerry/MoveOn House party on December 7th combined the forces of two grass-roots organizations based in San Francisco East Bay Area. We had 200 guests eating, drinking, and watching the MoveOn Documentary “Uncovered” featuring Joseph Wilson and Rand Beers from the Kerry campaign."
http://blog.johnkerry.com/blog/archives/000871.html#more
(That's the OFFICIAL Kerry/Edwards blog.)
Looks to me like an affiliate of the Kerry camapign (East Bay for Kerry coordinates with the official Kerry campaign) set up a party with MoveOn, and then the official Kerry campaign touted it. AND it looks like some high officials in the Kerry camapign were part of a MoveOn "documentary". Proof positive that the Kerry campaign is illegally coordinating with MoveOn.org.
Posted by: Al at August 23, 2004 10:57 AM
On a personal note, I think that SBVT and moveon should be able to express their opinions. This whole issue has gotten outta control, all is "fair" in politics. But I must say I've visited both SBVT and the moveon website, and moveon was the only one of the two that actually had a page set up to allow visitors to DONATE money to campaign funds for US Senate hopefuls Erskine Bowles, Brad Carson, Tony Knowles,Ken Salazar, and Inez Tenenbaum. At the bottom of the page it states that it was approved by those candidates. check it out at www.moveonpac.org
Posted by: Kenna Frierson at August 25, 2004 11:59 PM