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I thought equilibium point is where govt revenue is maximized, not economic growth. Are you saying that both are maximized at equilibrium, or am I in error? Posted by: Frank Catle at August 26, 2004 09:35 PM |
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Wheew...been along time since I actually read Laffer's original article, but wasn't he talking specifically about supply-side tax cuts and not demand side tax cuts? (e.g., business tax-cuts--could be wrong) Posted by: Rusty Shackleford at August 26, 2004 09:39 PM |
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Frank, you are right. The Laffer Curve posits that below the inflection point, an increase in taxes results in an increase in tax revenues. Classical economists would say that *any* taxation inhibits economic growth. Posted by: Greg V at August 26, 2004 09:41 PM |
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Rusty, the Laffer Curve may be applied to any tax. Posted by: Greg V at August 26, 2004 09:42 PM |
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Nice post. I wonder why it has not been generally recognised that below some cut-off point, however defined, the effect stop. Do economists not study mathematics? Posted by: Oscar at August 26, 2004 10:51 PM |
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Wow, you spelled my name right even though I didn't. Posted by: Frank Castle at August 26, 2004 11:38 PM |
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It's been years since my last class in economics. Let me see if I understand what you mean. You are saying that we are presently very close to the maximum amount of revenue we can expect given how much we are willing to be taxed. Is that about right? Thus, our situation with revenue has little to do with the unemployment rate or Bush's tax cuts. Is that about right? Last question: Did Bush promise that the tax cuts would increase revenue or did he promise that they would stimulate the economy? Posted by: el Seco at August 27, 2004 02:24 AM |
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My impression, Dale, was that the Laffer Curve did not indicate that taxes ceased to be a factor in economic growth below the equilibrium point, but that the economic hindrance provided by that taxation did not offset the revenue lost by the cut below the equilibrium. (just throwing out numbers) So, while an effective tax cut from 40% to 36% might create an additional, say, 1% GDP growth, that GDP growth would not offset the 10% reduction in effective tax percentage. Meaning, the revenue would still go down, though not quite by the full 10%. But, as Snowden indicated, the cumulative effect over that extra 1% GDP growth would add up. Over the course of 10 years, that's quite a large increase in potential GDP, and that eventual increase in GDP would offset the lost revenue...though, it would not occur in any single year. Am I missing something? Posted by: Jon Henke at August 27, 2004 06:12 AM |
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Ironically, even though you spelled Frank's name right, you got mine wrong. It's Snowden, but no matter. Anyway, the specific bit I was commenting on was this: "As such, any reductions in taxes, no matter how spiffy they are at keeping the economy growing, will not result in significant increases in tax revenues, and, may actually result in revenue decreases." You appear to suggest a case where tax reduction still produces economic growth. If so, then you are not at EP on the Laffer Curve. I think I mentioned in my comment that the effect of tax policy on economic growth is a question, but assuming spiffy growth, we ought to see more revenue. Or, maybe I misinterpreted your meaning in the above quote. Certainly there is a rate of growth that is low enough where it cannot overcome the lower tax rate and produce additional revenue. But even if the tax reduction did not yield higher revenue, a revenue-neutral tax reduction that still produces some growth is preferable to no tax reduction at all. After all, people are better off with more money, even if the government gets no increasing dollar receipts. Of course, that goes beyond the Laffer Curve discussion. Otherwise I agree with you. The Laffer Curve is all about incentives and how we respond to them. And there is a lower bound, below which lower taxes will not produce higher growth or revenue. I just thought the above quote alluded to a situation where there was still significant growth. The fact that we cannot accurately predict incentive effects suggests to me the need for a generally low tax rate. A bias, if you will, toward low taxation. Moreover, a flat tax, that provides an across the board, ongoing incentive to earn more money is quite viable. Even if government revenue is not optimized exactly, we will create more wealth, which is far more important than creating government revenue. Posted by: Roger Snowden at August 27, 2004 10:05 AM |
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I would like to make a further point. There is no "equilibrium" point on the Laffer Curve. There is an inflection point. The inflection point indicates the point at which tax revenues are maximized. Classical economists make no recommendations with respect to government expenditures. (That is a political question left to the voters and their representatives.) But let's say that voters desire government spending to be something less than maximum tax revenue point on the Laffer Curve. There are two points that yield the revenue required to meet the desired government spending -- one above the reflection point (higher tax rate, more harm to the economy) and one below the inflection point (lower tax rate, less harm to the economy.) Classical economists do not argue that we should be on the revenue maximization point. All classical economists say is that we should not be to the right of the revenue taxation point. If we are, there is a point to the left of the revenue maximization point which yield the same revenue with a lower tax rate and less disruption (not no disruption) to the economy. I graduated with an economics degree and took calculus in high school and college (two semesters). Good economists are good quant guys. Of course, I work in the financial services industry, not economics. Posted by: Greg V at August 27, 2004 10:10 AM |
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This is an interesting theoretical argument that is also totally irrelevant. The Laffer curve says absolutely nothing about the real world where we are facing the fiscal trifecta of Social Security and Medicare unfunded liabilities in addition to the alternative minimum tax crunch and our ballooning trade deficit. Paul Volker is predicting a 75% chance of a fiscal crisis in the next five years and the Laffer curve does not provide policy prescriptions for any of these problems. Posted by: Gary Boatwright at August 29, 2004 02:06 PM |
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The Laffer curve says absolutely nothing about the real world where we are facing the fiscal trifecta of Social Security and Medicare unfunded liabilities in addition to the alternative minimum tax crunch and our ballooning trade deficit. Well, no it doesn't. But, that's not what it's supposed to do, either, so it's hard to see what your point is. Posted by: Dale Franks at August 29, 2004 03:06 PM |
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