QandO

So typical, yet these are the same people who
gave Klintoon a pass on Juanetta Broderick.

The mind boggles.

Posted by: McQ2 at September 3, 2004 01:05 PM

Yes, truly mind-boggling. Sane, rational people look at stuff like this and say "Huh?". I'm sure people would love to speak out against such ludicrous speech, but fear being stamped with the "misogynist" or "intolerant" label.

Posted by: Chris at September 3, 2004 01:30 PM

I think we're speaking out against it, but then I expect we're fascists anyway.

Posted by: looker at September 3, 2004 01:39 PM

First, I wish Chris Matthews would ask Molly Birnbaum if she "really" thinks George Bush "raped" anyone.

It's called a "metaphor", Mr Matthews ...

We are, after all, talking about a guy nicknamed "Shrub" and not one who earned the title "Slick Willie" -- in which case the question of rape was somewhat more literal.

MEANWHILE, John Kerry alleged US Soldiers in VietNam committed rape; but has not to my knowledge used his authority as a Senator to hold hearings on the matter to either bring the perpetrators to justice or compensate the victims. One wonders if he's a hard hearted bastard who doesn't care about justice for rape victims or an impotent wimp who can't sustain the protracted effort such an investigation would require. (Actually, I don't wonder, but I'd like to pose the question to Ms Birnbaum.)

Posted by: Pouncer at September 3, 2004 01:51 PM

Owens' comments were outrageous. Agreed.

But as long as we are on the subject, what about Dennis Hastert, the Speaker of the House and right behind Cheney in the line of succession? The man has basically accused George Soros of being a drug dealer and gaining his riches through drug peddling without a shred of proof. Even Wallace on FOX got wide-eyed when he said that. And he has refused to renounce the accusation.

Just another example of how far the right has gone.

Posted by: mkultra at September 3, 2004 01:59 PM

MK: Why is it your answer is always "Yeah, but...?"

The topic here is what Owens said. Not anyone else. Do try to stay on topic.

Posted by: McQ at September 3, 2004 02:19 PM

what about Dennis Hastert... The man has basically accused George Soros of being a drug dealer and gaining his riches through drug peddling without a shred of proof.

Yes, and Dennis has been smacked about by the blogosphere for it. Can't say the same about Owens and the MSM now, can we?

C'mon Mklutz, you're letting me down. We expect better than that from you. :-)

Posted by: D at September 3, 2004 02:25 PM

OK MKultra ... here's Hastert's letter to Soros.

Show me where he accused him of being a drug peddler and gaining his money through drugs:

September 1, 2004

Mr. George Soros
888 Seventh Avenue
New York, NY 10106

Dear Mr. Soros:

Thank you for your letter of August 31, 2004.

Let me say in response that we have a fundamentally different vision for the future of our nation. I think that policies that you and others have promoted are dangerous, radical and extreme. I am most concerned about any efforts to decriminalize narcotics, which I believe will exacerbate an already troubling situation in America. Illegal drug use and drug violence already kills thousands of young people on our streets each month in America. Yet you have funded organizations such as The Drug Policy Foundation, The Open Society, The Lendesmith Center, the Andean Council of Coca Leaf Producers, and several ballot initiatives across the country to decriminalize illegal drug use. Promoting drug use, in my view, will lead to more lives lost and more tragedy for our children. I think this approach is simply wrong.

These were the drug groups that I referred to in my comments on the Fox News Sunday program. Chris Wallace said, "drug cartels." I did not.

You have also founded an organization called Project Death America, dedicated to promoting euthanasia in America. That is another part of your radical agenda with which I strongly disagree.

The American people ought to know that the same people who have fought so aggressively to legalize drugs in this nation and to promote euthanasia are now fighting to defeat George Bush and Republicans in Congress. I would hope that the American people take note of the radical agenda that lies behind the millions of dollars of negative advertising targeted at the President and my colleagues in the Congress. And I would hope that the Democrats who are the principal beneficiaries of these ads would either publicly announce their support of this radical agenda, or denounce both the agenda and those ads.

I never implied that you were a criminal and I never would, that's not my style. I will state clearly that I believe your agenda is dangerous, extreme and wrong for America. I also believe that 527 political organizations set a dangerous precedent for political discourse because we don't know where the money comes from. For all we know, funding for some of the 527s might come from foreign sources or worse. Giving special interests more power and less accountability, while taking power away from political parties is a sad, but inevitable result of the campaign finance law that we enacted into law in the last session of Congress. It is my hope that we will take more effective action in the future to bring more transparency to the political process, as we take equally effective action to limit the power of the special interests.

Sincerely,

J. Dennis Hastert
Speaker of the House

Note carefully the paragraph about Fox News sunday.

Now, tell my this is equally as outrageous as the Owen thing? Go ahead and try if you like. But this isn't even in the same league with Owen's remarks.

Owen was talking about the President.

Hastert, at worst, is saying why he disagrees with Soros on legalizing drugs.

They're not even comparable.

Posted by: McQ at September 3, 2004 02:33 PM

The man has basically accused George Soros of being a drug dealer and gaining his riches through drug peddling without a shred of proof.

Please stop:

a.) lying
b.) trolling
c.) immediately trying to change the subject

Thank you, and have a nice day.

Posted by: Lance Jonn Romanoff at September 3, 2004 02:34 PM

I say "yes, but" because the thrust of ther TOPIC of your post is that you are taking some kind of principled stand against outrageous political speech. And my point is, if you are doing that, then isn't it fair to point out all outrageous political speech.

If your point is merely to bash the left, then say so. But if you imply that you are taking a principled stand, but then apply that princple only selectively, expect to get called on it. Remember, those who live in glass houses should not throw stones.

Posted by: mkultra at September 3, 2004 02:36 PM

Oh, and while we're at it:

Friday September 03, 2004
WEST ALLIS, Wis. (AP) President Bush on Friday wished Bill Clinton ``best wishes for a swift and speedy recovery.''

``He's is in our thoughts and prayers,'' Bush said at a campaign rally.

****

Tell me again about how the left has the monopoly on hate? Outrageous.
Bush's audience of thousands in West Allis, Wis., booed. Bush did nothing to stop them.

Posted by: mkultra at September 3, 2004 02:47 PM

Principled stand?

I'm noting what some idiot said. Did you see my post on Alan Keyes? I essentially gave him the same treatment for an outrageous remark he made.

Obviously that didn't register.

Geez.

Posted by: McQ at September 3, 2004 02:59 PM

hey MK, that's BS. I just heard a report from ABC New's White House reporter on the radio. They played the clip of the Preident's remarks and to quote her "the remarks were followed by respectful applause".

Quit making stuff up.

Posted by: McQ at September 3, 2004 03:06 PM

Tell me again about how the left has the monopoly on hate? Outrageous.
Bush's audience of thousands in West Allis, Wis., booed. Bush did nothing to stop them.

First of all, if he had done something to stop them, you would have accused him of supressing free speech. Secondly, the AFP describes the event someone differently than your assertion about it:

My prayers are with you: Bush

AFP[ FRIDAY, SEPTEMBER 03, 2004 11:50:32 PM ]

WEST ALLIS, Wisconsin: US President George W. Bush on Friday said his "thoughts and prayers" were with with his predecessor, Bill Clinton, who has been hospitalised ahead of undergoing heart surgery.

"En route here, we just received news that President Clinton has been hospitalized in New York. He is in our thoughts and prayers. We send him our best wishes for a swift and speedy recovery," said Bush.

Bush was in this battleground as part of a campaign blitz aimed at building on his prime-time speech to the Republican national convention, which kicked off the final two-month sprint to the November 2 elections.

After his announcement, thousands of boisterous supporters clapped respectfully.

So once again, stop lying, stop trolling, and stop trying to change the subject. It's getting very tiresome.

Posted by: Lance Jonn Romanoff at September 3, 2004 03:10 PM

Somewhat, not someone. Typo.

Posted by: Lance Jonn Romanoff at September 3, 2004 03:15 PM

HASTERT: ...You know, I don't know where George Soros gets his money. I don't know where — if it comes overseas or from drug groups or where it comes from. And I...

WALLACE: Excuse me?

HASTERT: Well, that's what he's been for a number years — George Soros has been for legalizing drugs in this country. So, I mean, he's got a lot of ancillary interests out there.

WALLACE: You think he may be getting money from the drug cartel?

HASTERT: I'm saying I don't know where, groups — could be people who support this type of thing. I'm saying we don't know. The fact is we don't know where this money comes from. Before, transparency — and what we're talking about in transparency in election reform is you know where the money comes from. You get a $25 check or a $2,500 check or $25,000 check, put it up on the Internet. You know where it comes from, and there it is.

Guilt by association, but the transcript doesn't indicate Hastert was stopping for an applause line after he said it.
Wallace was the one who caught him and broke the response with a polite "say what?"

Hastert should have known better. Legalizing won't make the cartels more money, it'll end up making them less.
Soros may be a left leaning whack job, but he's obviously a pretty smart one...he made his fortune years ago.

Yeah, Hastert crossed the line.

Now, MK - let's here what you think of Birnbaum's speech and Owen's comments.

And ya know, I just realized you posted no evidence that anyone booed in West Allis, other than your say so.

I mean, I'm not saying I can't believe it, but why should we take your word for it?

Why not just say "the crowd broke out in simultaneous applause and began to roast orphan children in celebration".

Posted by: looker at September 3, 2004 03:18 PM

So a "drug group" could only be a drug cartel and not a group who'd like to see legalization? Why would a drug cartel want the stuff legalized. They'd lose their 2000% profit.

Sorry, this little tempest in a teapot doesn't even compare to the outrageous Owens remarks.

Posted by: McQ at September 3, 2004 03:21 PM

Funny how desparate Mkultra is trying and at each turn he is presented with firm proof that he is shovelling horse poo by an ever more internet savy right side.

Also funny is how that speech was initially spun by AP . In that case, the blogosphere demanded correction to a lie and it happened. The old media bows before the enlightened masses. Bravo the blogosphere.

Posted by: capt joe at September 3, 2004 03:23 PM

Could this peevishness be coming from the news that Bush is now leading double digits over Kerry. Yowsa, nice bounce. When you consider that he came from behind by about 3 points, thats huge.

But I thought that the electoral was so evenly balanced that a bounce was not possible. At least that is what the media said when Kerry didn't get one.

I propose that the government pick up the plane costs for any media (hollywood and MSM) liberals that want to emmigrate to France.

Posted by: capt joe at September 3, 2004 03:32 PM

Two points, MK:

1: The "booed" thing has already been retracted by AP. It was, from the start, bullshit. I'm very anxious to see if Atrios and Oliver retract their posts.

2: I absolutely agree that Hastert was WAAAAY out of line.

Posted by: Jon Henke at September 3, 2004 03:33 PM

Nah....MK will now claim the AP is afraid of President Bush and changed their story.

Pity he didn't link to it the first time, and almost a pity the change got pointed it out. Imagine him trying to find the version he read the first time?
Sorta like telling him to go sit in the corner of a round room.

Posted by: looker at September 3, 2004 03:36 PM

I doubt they will. But if so then I would be pleasantly and happily surprised.

Hey, at least, the fruit loops haven't started shootings at the GOP meetings, oh wait.

The problem with such extreme speech by POLITICANS is that nutbars will act on it. The more nazis and rape rhetoric that appears, the more chance that something tragic will occur. Leaders (in any outfit) must set the example for their followers.

Posted by: capt joe at September 3, 2004 03:42 PM

Looker, there is a thread on yahoo that is already saying that the media censured itself (from the like I provided). Those fever swamp dwellers will never believe anything that isn't part of their mythology.

Posted by: capt joe at September 3, 2004 03:44 PM

Jon: What's "WAAAAY" out of line in your opinion in Hastert's remark?

Posted by: McQ at September 3, 2004 03:52 PM

Yes, FOXNEWS, or Bush, or some other element of the VRWC has now taken control over at AP.
Later today, there will be unnamed sources that give vague details on how the AP wire person who posted the original 'booing' story has since mysteriously disappeared under questionable circumstances.

Speaking of mysteriously disappeared...I don't recall Mk making any reflective observations on the comments by Owens and Birnbaum.

Ah, the left, where denial is not just a hobby, it's a way of life.

Posted by: looker at September 3, 2004 03:53 PM

Soros has been called the "Daddy Warbucks of drug legalization" by the head of Columbia University's National Center on Addiction and Substance Abuse, who was also the former Carter administration Secretary Of HEW.

Bob Weiner, the spokesman for Clinton drug czar Gen. McCaffrey has said that "I'm sure the [George Soros-backed] Lindesmith Center's desire to take us into nihilism and chaos and to jam our hospital emergency rooms with more users has some valid purpose."

Soros has funded pro-drug legalization organizations with a least $30 million.

Now, I happen to side with Soros on this one in regard to policy, but the notion that Hastert was referring to anything other than Soros long and deep relationship with pro-drug legalization groups is ridiculous.

Now, let us get back to Rep. Owens, please.

Posted by: Lance Jonn Romanoff at September 3, 2004 03:57 PM

whups - my apologies - he DID say Owens comments were outrageous.

I'll settle for one, pushing for Birnbaum would be asking for to much.

Posted by: looker at September 3, 2004 03:59 PM

Drudge retracts, noting the audio reveals cheers for Clinton.

This is grade A bullshit. I want the name of the fuckwit who put this lie into the AP feed, and I want to read that he's been fired immediately, without severance pay.

Posted by: shark at September 3, 2004 04:02 PM

Then you'll be giving substance to the story I made up!

Posted by: looker at September 3, 2004 04:08 PM

"Jon: What's "WAAAAY" out of line in your opinion in Hastert's remark?"

However, Wallace specifically asked him if he meant "the drug cartel", and Hastert kept going with no denial or clarification.

What's more, in his eventual response, Hastert named some drug groups with which Soros is involved....but they are groups to which Soros gives money. Not the other way 'round.

Finally, it's hardly a secret how Soros got his money. He's an international financier...a currency trader.

Posted by: Jon Henke at September 3, 2004 04:11 PM

However, Wallace specifically asked him if he meant "the drug cartel", and Hastert kept going with no denial or clarification.

Maybe I'm just giving Hastert too much of the benefit of the doubt here, but I hardly think it's just to impugn him with the words of Chris Wallace when Wallace either stupidly or mendaciously misinterpreted what Hastert was saying.

Posted by: Lance Jonn Romanoff at September 3, 2004 04:17 PM

Hastert said "...overseas and drug groups ...". Two different entites in the discussion. Since they were talking about Soros's desire to see drugs legalized it would seem that questioning who might be influencing the man to campaign for that, and why, are legitimate.

The fact that Wallace misconstrued what Hastert said, i.e. didn't separate "overseas" from 'drug groups" isn't Hastert's problem. Perhaps he didn't feel it deserved a clarification since he in no way intimated or inferred it from what I see.

And, when you're trying to make a point on a show in which you have limited time, I think the first inclination would be to get the thought out there and then clean it up if necessary afterward. Hastart apparently didn't see the need to clean it up.

And yes we know how Soros makes his money, but Hastart is asking is he using his money to fund this campaign or are there others out there interested in funding it for Soros? Again, a legitimate question.

When asked by Wallace if he thought he was getting his money from drug catels, Hastart says "I don't know where he's getting his money...". Where I come from "I don't know" doesn't mean "yes, that's what I'm saying".

I dunno .... I just don't see a huge problem with what Hastert said.

Posted by: McQ at September 3, 2004 04:32 PM

MK, you had a golden opportunity to cheaply and easily gain some credibility and respect for having the intellectual honesty and moral consistency to disavow, hell, to merely criticize Owen for his outrageous remarks. But you couldn't even do that. You instead pulled out the simply laughable Hastert/Soros story and tried to hawk it as somehow equivalent to or exculaptory of Owen.

On top of that you snatched a reference to the demonstrably false (and since retracted) AP story about GOPers booing at mention of Clinton's bypass, and Bush doing nothing to stop them. Although you may not have known at the time you posted that the story was an outright lie from the AP reporter, you haven't made any sort of acknowledgment of the story's falsity and your error in attempring to use it (although I'm unclear what it was to have demonstrated).

I knew you were an ideologue, and that's fine. But I did not know until this moment that you are an absolute partisan hack who pimps his intellect and sells his integrity to push the party line. I'm done with you. There's nothing you have to say that I want to waste my time reading.

Posted by: Jumbo at September 3, 2004 08:10 PM